Founders: These Are the Mistakes You Don't Know You're Going to Make | Steve Walsh, Ep 52

Todd Merrill: Hi, welcome to Tales from the SkyLounge. It's a podcast about business, consulting, and venture investing. We get out there in the world, and we talk to people who are making it happen, and we get their stories. Today's guest in the SkyLounge, Steve Walsh. Hey Steve. Steve Walsh: Hey man. How are you doing? Good to see you.

Todd Merrill: Hey, welcome to SkyLounge. Steve Walsh: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Todd Merrill: Well, Steve, who are you and what are you working on? Steve Walsh: I'll say I'm an extroverted married father of two, and what I work on changes on a daily basis, but it's usually centered around helping early-stage founders figure out how to build good companies and maybe whether or not they should raise capital to do it, to accelerate them. That's really where I spend most of my time. Todd Merrill: Wow. And then, we found you on TikTok, and you're just absolutely crushing it on TikTok. So, that's awesome seeing your content on there. Well, Steve, how did you get your start in life before we get into the whole venture investing? What sets you up for that? The ability to know how companies work and be able to advise people? Steve Walsh: I think it's working at almost every level of a company. Like, my background is in the U.S. broadband space. I spent 25 years in the space. Think of the two of the biggest companies that people love to hate: Cox Communications and Comcast. So, I was an early employee at both in their B2B division. Most of them had never had business divisions before, and that was my background. And the interesting thing is I've done everything from sales rep to manager, to director, to vice president, to division vice president. So, there wasn't a level within an organization that I haven't worked in myself. So, when someone says, " You don't understand how hard it is to be a frontline sales rep or a sales leader.” I'm like, “I've done every position in the company and help both of them build into multi-billion dollar businesses.“ When I got to Cox, it was brand new. We had no customers, no revenue. When I left, it was a billion dollars. And then when I went to Comcast, same thing. First year I was there, we did 200 million in revenue. The last year I was there, we did 10 billion. So, it was fun to do it twice. So, I knew something, Todd. I knew that I understood how to sell, build sales teams, build operations around it, and grow companies really fast. And then when I left after 25 years, I was like, well, what am I going to do next? I'm like, well, I've got sort of this network of super helpful resources. I've got this knowledge of how to build fast-growing companies, usually in B2B and enterprise, when I did okay. So, I've got some capital. Well, why don't I just go help the next generation of founders build companies? That sounds like really fun, and that was it. Todd Merrill: Yeah Steve Walsh: So that's sort of what I did and how I got to my, I call it phase two of my life, which started nine years ago. Todd Merrill: Yeah, that's awesome. So, we weren't going to go here, but intrapreneurism is usually a funny thing, right? And so growing a new initiative inside of an existing company… Steve Walsh: … yes Todd Merrill: Is kind of a different thing from entrepreneurism where you have a napkin, maybe, and then… Steve Walsh: … yeah, you are absolutely right. Todd Merrill: You go from there, but it's kind of sort of the same skills. How would you compare those two? Steve Walsh: Great question. Let me use Comcast as an example. I'm in a room after I got hired. My boss was the senior vice president and GM. And I said, how many markets we got to launch in the country? He goes, 25 markets. I go; how long do we have? He goes, two years to launch them. I go, okay. I said, how much capital do we have? He goes, unlimited. It's a hundred-billion-dollar company. You can't spend all the capital we're going to have. I go, great. How many people have been hired in the whole company? He goes, are we including the three of us in this meeting right now? I go, yeah. He goes, three. And I go, what's the plan? And he stands up, and he goes, that's why we hired you, smart guy. And he walks out of the room. True story. Todd Merrill: Wow! Steve Walsh: And then 10 years later, we had a $10 billion business, so it had the framework of a startup in the entrepreneurship in that. It was kind of an idea on the back of a napkin. Nothing was built, no comp plan, no people, no network. We had to build it all from scratch. But the flip side was I didn't have to worry about making payroll every two weeks because it was a hundred-billion-dollar company. I didn't have to worry about building a brand because everybody knew who Comcast was, whether they liked us or hated us. I didn't have to worry about it because we were on TV every five seconds and we owned NBC. So, they were watching Sunday night football brought to you by Xfinity. So, they knew who we were. So, it had the look and feel of a startup and the pace, but it didn't have the stress of My God, we only have six months' worth of runway. We're going to run out of money. We can't pay anybody. That's how it was the same and how it was very different. Todd Merrill: Wow. And so, you're a sales leader, but it sounds like you're more than that. You're kind of a division leader? Steve Walsh: Yeah. I was a vice president for business services. So, I ended up running a $500 million business unit for them. 200 employees working for me. I think 4 or 500,000 customers under my overview. It was nuts. I had an assistant. Like, when I left, it was so busy. I had an assistant who literally would come in and go, there's 200 emails that have to be returned before noon. I've started the 50 we need to return. You have 12 meetings today, and your wife called to make sure you eat. Todd Merrill: Ha ha ha! Steve Walsh: Like that was my life. Todd Merrill: Yeah, yeah. Steve Walsh: It was nice. But it was fun. I did it twice. It was incredibly fun. I learned a ton, and I learned how to build a company, which was pretty cool. Todd Merrill: Did you go immediately from one to the other? Or did you have a little buffer? Steve Walsh: So, what happened was the president of Cox Business, where I was there for seven years, left to become the president of Comcast. And I was one of his guys. And he's like, “Hey, you're one of my Cox guys. How'd you like to come do it at a company four times the size and with unlimited capital at the largest broadband company in the world?” And we're where Cox was five years ago, and like to do it all over again. And I'm like, that sounds like a lot of fun. And so that was it. It was a chance to do it at a company at the size and scale I'd never seen. And when I literally got in the room, and there were three of us, I'm like, this is when you said grassroots, like you weren't kidding. He goes, it was almost like, I got a pile of money and unlimited opportunity, but I have no idea how to go after it. I'm like, this is going to be fun. Todd Merrill: So, there are so many parallels with, you know, DeNovo companies. Right? So, like you were, so I think, you're an entrepreneur, and you exit, right? You get marked with a success, and that's kind of what happened to you. Right? You did it. And then, hey, the gang's getting back together again. And like, what was that conversation? Like, two minutes or lunch or you know, was it like super quick? Steve Walsh: Yeah. I was getting interviewed by a couple of folks from the cable company, cause they hadn't hired anybody in the business group of like, why should we hire this guy? We've got, you know, a hundred thousand employees. We have a bunch of directors and VPs here that we could just take from the residential business to go build this business, who knows Comcast. They know our culture. Why are we bringing in this guy? We got to move him from Vegas. We got to do a reload. Like, he's got a house, like, this is hard. And he's expensive cause we got to recruit them away. And I wasn't interviewing with the president because he already knew me. He said, look, this is the guy you guys just get comfortable with them, but like, this is the guy to do it. So, I got in the room with all these other folks at Comcast, and they're like, you know, they told me, they said, we've got five or six candidates that have been with the company, like eight years, they could do this, and I just said, no, they can't. And he goes, what do you mean? They can't. They're very qualified. I said, they can't do what I'm going to do. They go, why? I go, because I know what the next five years of your life look like. They don't. And I've made all the mistakes that they don't know they're going to make, and I'm going to tell you what not to do. And that's going to accelerate you by four or five years ahead of what would be if you hired them instead of me. That's why you want me, and that was it. Todd Merrill: And that's kind of what you're doing now. Right? Except on a very new entrepreneur stage. Steve Walsh: It’s all I'm doing right now, Todd. I'm literally going to early-stage founders going, let me tell you all the mistakes that you don't even know you're going to make. And let me tell you how to avoid them. And let me tell you how to go faster. And when is a good time to maybe infuse capital into the business, and what does that look like? And when it's a good time, maybe not to, there is such a thing as growing too fast. Todd Merrill: So what? I'm very opinionated on this, so I've thought about this deeply of, you know, art of the start, you know, so what are your mental model milestones? If you get a brand new entrepreneurs, never done this before, they've got a decent idea, you kind of think you could work with this person because those are the first, you know, sell yourself, sell the idea, you know, where does it go? Where does your brain go from there? Or where are you coaching that entrepreneur to, you know, what is the next two or three milestones? Steve Walsh: Their first instinct is to go out and raise a bunch of money to build a product, and that's like counterintuitive to what they should be doing. What they should be doing is saying, I have this idea. I think it's really good, and I think there's a big problem in the world. And what I argue a lot, Todd, is that every company solves a problem for someone, whether it's a product or service; you solve a problem for something. Are you saving them money, making them more productive, improving their health? Like, what problem are you solving? So, what I tell the entrepreneur is before you build anything, before you write a line of code or voice prompt it nowadays into AI, before you spend any money or raise any money, go find 50 potential clients, whether they're individuals or companies, depending upon if you're a consumer or business, and go validate whether or not they have this problem. And I want you to ask the following questions. Do you have this problem? How big is this problem? How do you currently try to solve it? Whether a product or service? How much money do you spend on solving this problem? Is it efficient? Do you like it? If there was an alternative, would you even consider using anything else, or does anything else not even exist? And if something did exist to solve this problem, would you be a candidate for it? And just ask very open-ended questions and go do that 50 times. And if you come back and 40 of the 50 think that it's a home run, you might be onto something. If 2 out of 50 think it's a good idea, you might not have as great an idea as you think. Todd Merrill: Yeah. And I always like to talk about the worst possible thing you could do is get a pleasant yes or maybe. Right? And then like, no, is informative, and oh my God, yes, is very informative. But like, hey, I like you, Steve. I'll give it a try. You know, like that's the worst thing that can happen. Cause that's not really a yes. Right? It's kind of a, you know? And then we call it vitamins versus painkillers. Right? You need a painkiller, not a vitamin. Steve Walsh: Todd, you almost want someone that says, Todd, I have this problem so bad. There is no amount of money I wouldn't spend to solve it. That's what you want. Todd Merrill: Yeah Steve Walsh: You want a customer that's like, Steve, this problem is so big. If anyone could solve it for me, I almost would pay anything to solve it cause it has such an impact on my business. Todd Merrill: When, and I always like to use the metric, and maybe I have this a little backwards, and I'm thinking about it more and more, but I tell the entrepreneur, go, you got to sell the first 10 of whatever it is. You got to sell the first 10 deals. Steve Walsh: Yep Todd Merrill: Some of those people at least need to pay you money, and then we're going to test product market fit. And then I'd find that if you threaten to shut off whatever this thing is, 40% of your customers should be ready to fight you over it, that passionate. And then that's like, wow. You know, how many of these little AI startups really are going to make that mark? You know, or is it just kind of, you know, remind Steve to eat today? You know, that's nice, but like, I'm not going to pay you. Steve Walsh: Ever heard of the company called Superhuman? Todd Merrill: Yeah. Yeah Steve Walsh: Okay. So, they got sold last year for a billion dollars, and Rahul, the founder, he did a podcast where he talked about his definition of product market fit. And he said, to him, product market fit was if your product went away or you took a product away from somebody, that their life would not be as good, their company wouldn't be as productive, their life wouldn't be as good. He goes, that's what product market fit feels like. And this is a guy that, when he built Superhuman, said, Google's a mess. It's not a good way to do email. I'm going to build a better email platform, and I'm going to charge $30 a month for it. And everybody said, it can't be done. Google's free. Nobody will pay $30. And he said, there's such pain around people using Google because they feel like they have no alternative. If I build a better product and a better experience and solve that pain, people will pay for it. And he sold his company for a billion dollars last year because he nailed product market. Todd Merrill: Wow! Wow. All right. Were you in that deal by any chance? Steve Walsh: I wasn't. I wish I was, but I love the founder, man. Every time you see him, too, he's got this black and red leather jacket on. He wears the same leather jacket in every video. He's almost like Jensen Huang from NVIDIA, like who always wears the black leather jacket whenever you see him. This guy has a black and red leather jacket that he wears in every video, every time you see him. Todd Merrill: Okay. Yeah. It's kind of like Steve Jobs, right? He had the black T-shirt. Steve Walsh: That's it, or Zuckerberg back in the day used to wear a white T-shirt every time. Todd Merrill: Yeah. Wow. So, how many startups do you think you've got in your advisory stable? You said 60-something. Steve Walsh: 69. I'm at 69 companies right now that I've worked with raise money for. We've raised like a billion in the aggregate of the 69 companies, 11 exits. So, 11 of the founders have gotten to the promised land of having something good happen to their company. Some have been acquired; no public, no IPOs yet. People, I mean, people don't realize like it's, I mean, you know, SpaceX gets all the headlines lately, but like this very few companies that go public it's ramping up, but like two years ago, we had like a hundred companies in the world go public in a year. That's not a lot of companies. So, acquisition is probably the main way that companies get exits nowadays. So, I've had 11 of them so far, which is kind of nice. Todd Merrill: So out of those, out of that population, how many absolutely do you coach out of business? You're not ready, it's not going to work, or do you give a shot to everybody? Steve Walsh: No. I mean, I'll give you the math, Todd. To get to 69, I've talked to 6,000. Todd Merrill: Okay Steve Walsh: So, I talked to like 30 to 40 founders a week. So, out of the 66,000 conversations I've had, it's about 1% that I've actually invested in and worked with. Todd Merrill: Wow! Steve Walsh: I am convinced that 90% of the people out there should not be starting companies. They shouldn't. And I love Shark Tank. I've met Mark Cuban a couple of times. Great guy, by the way. But I do think that shows like Shark Tank and Silicon Valley give this illusion that everybody should be an entrepreneur and everybody can be, and I do not subscribe to that. It is a heck of a lot harder than people think it is. Raising money is 10 times harder than people think it is. Less than 1% of all companies will ever raise venture capital. It's just that the numbers really are against it. And I think we as a society preach this: everybody should be an entrepreneur, everybody should try. And I'm like, nah, I don't subscribe to that. At least that has not been my experience. Todd Merrill: You know, earlier this year, I opened a venture studio, and we're working with a lot of people, and we've backed way off the initial entrepreneur cause we like to go very fast, and it's too hard to bring them along. And I think we're looking at saying, hey, you know, we can't work with you yet until you've gone through at least an accelerator of some sort or some kind of education. I'm not even sure that that's worth it at that point. So, you know, you're doing the Lord's work, you know, getting them early and you know, getting them up the curve. Yeah. Steve Walsh: It's a lot. And yeah, I mean, I do some work with Techstars. So, I'm a mentor in residence with Techstars, which is probably the second largest accelerator next to Y Combinator that people know. And a lot of that work is just helping the founders answer this question. I don't know what I don't know. Like they don't know how to either build product, go to market, raise money. And what they do is bring in mentors like me and others to help fill those gaps. So, like, I tend to come in and talk to the founders about, we're going to have a demo day. There's going to be investors. How do you do a pitch deck? How do you tell your story? Cause fundraising, much like sales, is all about storytelling. And how do you position your company to put it in the best light in front of these investors? And a lot of them have no clue how to do it. Todd Merrill: Do you have, like, a little curate to go in where you have, like, once a quarter or once a year, like Tech Week or something, you get everybody in a room, like, here's all my flock? Steve Walsh: So, it's funny. I have done events at the Tech Week. So, I do a lot of like Boston Tech Week, New York, LA, San Francisco, South by Southwest, I've done some stuff that, and it's always been centered around just sort of individual founders or maybe Techstars. And what's been asked of me, and I'm probably going to do it this year, starting in LA in October, is people like, why don't you just do your thing, where it's the hands-on angel ecosystem, and you bring in your founders, you back funders that have invested those founders, and just start doing these events around your ecosystem. Cause there is one common thread, and it ends up being me around those. So, I think what's going to happen over time for me, Todd, is, cause a lot of people are asking me when we go to Tech Weeks, instead of going to other people's events, do your own. And I've got a lot of service providers that I refer business to that are like, Steve, we'll sponsor them. We'd love to come and meet your founders and your other investors. So, that's probably what it's morphing to this year. I'm going to stop doing and attending other people's events and probably do my own curated invest. Todd Merrill: Yeah. We used to have this thing in Atlanta called a startup lounge where they would do that, you know, once a quarter, and they had a couple of services. You couldn't get in if you're a service provider unless you're the accountant … Steve Walsh: … unless you’re the sponsor. Todd Merrill: Or the lawyer or, yeah, right. Exactly. Steve Walsh: Yep Todd Merrill: And then that worked out really well. I think, you know, like any good thing, it kind of runs out of energy, you know, after several years. Steve Walsh: Yeah. What I don't want to do is I don't want to get to the point where like it's every two weeks, there's an event by me, but in my head, I'm going, if I could pick maybe four spots a year, so one a quarter, and maybe in different cities, maybe one in the Northeast, one on the West coast, one in the Southwest and one of the Southeast, so four different corners, that way I can hit different ecosystems. That might work really well. That way, I'm not running around like a maniac, but at the same time, getting my founders in those ecosystems to work together and build community. Todd Merrill: So, I know you're on TikTok, right? So, you've got to be pulling in people from all four corners of the earth, so what's your dispersion look like, and how do you manage through that? Steve Walsh: So, the funny thing is my fastest growing, I mean, my largest population is in the United States cause that's where I'm based. However, my fastest-growing audience on TikTok is Europe, Asia, and Africa, which are fast-growing startup ecosystems. Yeah. So, I have a ton. When I go live on TikTok, usually four or five days a week. We'll get anywhere between 2000 and 10,000 people in the lives, on each session. So, like in a week, I might have 15, 20,000 people across the lives. And the fastest-growing segment that I'm seeing is Europe, Asia, and Africa, which are just developing ecosystems. And I think a lot of them want access to the U.S. because U.S. is 75% of all venture dollars come from the U.S. And since I'm based here, they see that me as a- I'll call it not an entryway or an entry point, somehow into the U.S. ecosystem to learn more. And that's really why it started to take off in those different geographies. Todd Merrill: Yeah. Well, and then how hard is it? It's hard to cross the border, right? You know, like people bring you stuff in Europe and then, you know, I'm comfortable in Europe, but it's like, God, you know, I just don't want to deal with all the Texas and all the forms. And like, I just don't want to do business there. You know how I avoid that? Steve Walsh: The way I avoid it, Todd, is I will not do business with anyone that's not a Delaware C corporation. So, problem solved. Todd Merrill: Okay Steve Walsh: So, if you're in the UK, EU, African Corp, I have an Australian founder I do business with. I have one from the Philippines. Every one of them is a Delaware Corp. So, it's a U.S. entity. I understand Texas. I understand the laws, super simple. And most of my investor network wants to invest in a Delaware C Corp anyway, because it's the most widely used corporate structure. So, I don't have to worry about the UK. Texas, or when things go wrong sometimes in business, what the hell do I know about a Latvian court? Like, I have no idea. Todd Merrill: Yeah. Well, you know, your uncle doesn't live there. So, you got a problem, right? Steve Walsh: Exactly. So, that's the way I'm able to mitigate that. And what I tell the investors that say, well, I don't want to do a conversion to Delaware. I'm like, well, you're in the UK, and the amount of investors in the UK is this versus this in the U.S. We have the money. You want the money. It's up to you. And it's not that bad. Todd Merrill: Okay. And then, so you get them to the U.S. You get them to form here, and then they probably need a couple of services. That's where the service writers come in. And then, you know, it's not unlike anything else, right? You just got to start the company no matter where you are, okay. That makes a lot of sense. And then what would you do if somebody came in and said, hey, no, you know, my lawyer said I need an LLC in some weird state? Steve Walsh: That happens a lot. Todd Merrill: I had this conversation last week, and the lawyer was trying to convince us, you know, oh no, you know, you don't have to convert people invest. And then, you know, we were kind of shaking our heads going, man, you know, it's always a C-Corp, you know, it's usually Delaware, Wyoming, maybe, but. Steve Walsh: Yep. Funny, you bring that up. I had a founder in Wyoming that wanted to be a Wyoming Corp, and I booked a 30-minute call with him for him to tell me about his business and talk about investment, all this stuff. He spent 27 minutes trying to convince me why a Wyoming Corp was better than a Delaware C. And at the end of the call, I said, hey, so-and-so, this has been great. You know what I learned about your business today? Nothing. All I know is a Wyoming Corp, and all I know is why I'm never going to do a Wyoming Corp, and this has been a complete waste of my time and yours, but I'm fully educated on the Wyoming corporation structure. Thank you. But now I have no- I mean, the call's done. I have another call, and we're done. Todd Merrill: Yeah, yeah. Steve Walsh: And I said, no, my only guidance would be like, your job is to convince me about why you're a great company. What's your vision, what you're doing. You're wasting energy by just talking about this Wyoming. He’s like, well, I really believe in it. I go, yeah, but you don't have the money. The investors have the money, and they're comfortable with Delaware. Why would you want to fight them on that? I said, because the last thing you want to do as a founder is create doubt or give me a reason not to invest. And when you argue with me for 25 minutes about corporate structure, that's giving me a huge reason not to invest. Todd Merrill: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, and I find we need a name for these people, but you know, there's the founder that gets hung up on the trivia, the administrative stuff. And it's like, dude, you know, what are you doing? You don't have customers yet. Like, come on. Like… Steve Walsh: …what are we talking about? Todd Merrill: Right. Right. Well, and I feel like coachable; I like to walk with them for a little bit and work with them and then just see, you know, can you be flexible? Can you be adaptable? Like, do you have a little bit of grit? You know, what happens when you hit that first speed bump? You know, what's going to happen. And then a lot of people can't get through that, or they just get hung up. And then it's like, man, there's only two things you got to do: make stuff and sell stuff. Steve Walsh: And Todd, is there anything else that's that matters more? No, like just, they're like, what matters in the early stages? I'm like launching the company, getting people paying attention, and getting people to pay for it. That's it. Like, everything else is noise. Everything is noise. Todd Merrill: Well, I want to talk to you about that. So, make stuff is my department. I’m a software guy, you know, so that got way cheaper, way easier to do. Like, that is not your problem anymore. Like, you know, we will take care of that for you very cheaply, but now it's kind of on your sales side of the house. Good market distribution has gotten easier and way harder all at the same time. You want to talk about that? Like, how are you coaching people to get going in the market? I mean, have a lot of conversations with a lot of people and then what? What do you do? Steve Walsh: Yeah. So, you're right because technology has become commoditized. Anyone can vibe code anything in an hour. And because of that, the differentiation and the protection of IP is becoming more difficult every day. So, what's really going to happen is the differentiation for companies is going to be the founder and their team's ability to have a world-class onboarding experience and to be maniacal about serving their customers when things go wrong. And when I look at data, even back from my cable days at Comcast and Cox, the number one reason we would lose a customer was a bad onboarding experience. So, you can build great software, but if your onboarding experience stinks, and people don't understand the value you bring, how to use your product, and they can't onboard easily and frictionlessly, they're going to leave. So, that's number one. And number two is when things go wrong, stop trying to automate everything to the point where you don't have a one-to-one relationship with your customer. If I were going to spend any money on headcount, it would be either on onboarding or serving my customers. So, when something goes wrong, somebody can step in outside of the bots and say, this is a problem. I'm taking this one. We're going to escalate and have a path of escalation. Maybe technology is your first line, but as things get escalated, you need to have a human element, a one-on-one connection. So, I coach founders in that a lot. I'm like, in the early stages, when you have no money and no customers, you should over-index on onboarding and customer service, even to the point of doing shit that doesn't scale. I'm fine with you doing stuff that doesn't scale. If you have to physically call every customer to make sure they stay, that's what's required because to your point, you have to prove you can get that first 10 customers, and if eight of them leave cause it was a crappy onboarding experience, no one's going to want to touch you. Todd Merrill: Right. Or they feel like you're just ignoring them after you take the money. Steve Walsh: Correct Todd Merrill: That's not good either. Steve Walsh: Correct. Absolutely correct. Todd Merrill: So, you know, talk about getting- I always feel like, you know, the founder has, you know, regardless of whether you're a salesperson or not, you have to sell those first 10 deals. And then a lot of people would argue, like, if you're not in sales, if you're not have the sales ability, you should not be a founder as well. How do you get to that, and when do you systematize or hire the next person or start to automate? Or how do you think through that? Steve Walsh: What I always say is, like, my opinion, it's simply my opinion is, like, first year or so, founder-led sales. Like, when I meet a founder who says, I want to go raise money, I go, what do you use the money for if you raise it? They I'm going to go hire a VP of sales. I'm like, why? They're like, so I can offload sales. I'm not a sales guy. I'm like, well, you're already sunk. Like, let me get this straight. You're the visionary. You know this is Todd's baby. Todd spent three years thinking about this, built the entire product suite, and your first order of business is to hand that to a total stranger and let them go sell your vision. What are you out of your mind? Like, is anybody going to know this product better than Todd? Is anybody going to understand the customer need better? And if you can't get comfortable doing that a lot in the early stages, you absolutely should not be a founder. Todd Merrill: Right. Right. Well, and I feel like you've got to get it so crisp where you go, look, I'm going to hand you five phone numbers. You call them, and you say exactly this. And when they say this, then it's either one of these two things. And here's how you close them. And then call me if anything at all goes sideways. And then until you get to that level of specificity. Steve Walsh: I always say to founders is like, until you get to your first, I don't know, 10,000 in revenue, like a hundred K a year in revenue. You shouldn't be letting anyone else do sales. You don't have enough customers to worry about it. Like, if you came to me and said, Steve, I have to hire someone cause I've sold the first 50 and I've got 500 in the queue and I just don't have enough hours in the day. Good problem to solve. Let's solve that. But that's not what happens cause they come to me and say they want to go hire a VP of sales. I go, great. How many customers do you have? Three. I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Like, why would you do that? Well, I just want to get rid of it. I go; you're already telling me you're not in this to win it. Like, I don't know. Todd Merrill: Right. You're kind of done. And then … Steve Walsh: … you're done. Todd Merrill: All you got is a piece of product that somebody can hack, you know, in a weekend, and then that's, you know, where are we? Yeah. So, what do you think about, you know, people used to talk about product-led growth, you know, hey, just build product, and then people like it so much that it'll sell itself. Like, those days are kind of over, right? You know, in any category of software, there seems to be a million different knockoffs to it, and then you can't just go buy Google ads and then have people come anymore. Right? So, it kind of goes to who should or can start a company, right? If you're, you know, a junior at Georgia Tech or MIT, you don't have a network of people that you know, like you just haven't had those experiences yet. Do you feel like that's more important than ever? That we back people that are like 10, 15 years into their business life? Or do you think kids that are in college still have a shot at it? Steve Walsh: I think they do because they have access to learn a lot faster than you or I ever had. They have access to technology that allows it. So, it's never been easier to start a company. It's never cost less to start a company, and the barrier to entry has been brought way down. So, what I'm seeing, Todd, is I just judged a pitch competition, an MIT student. Second company already, had an eight-figure exit, already had an eight-figure exit. He's 20 years old. So, in a second company, I'm seeing it skewed earlier. What I would argue, which goes to your point, is that it's not a bad thing to get a couple of people on the team with gray hair. Todd Merrill: Sure Steve Walsh: I like to call it the adults in the room because they bring not just a different skill set. They bring a different mindset because they might come from a different era. They might look at things differently. Maybe they're a little more careful, reserved. Maybe their business acumen is off the charts, and they can just give you a different way to think through problems. And I think sometimes when I see a founding team and like it's two or three people, they're all college students. They're 20 years old. I'm like, who’s going to tell them sometimes they're running too fast and they're crossing the street without looking both ways. Like, there needs to be somebody to do that. Todd Merrill: Ha ha ha, yeah. Steve Walsh: And I don't think that's a bad thing. So, I love to see teams where it's a couple of maybe people earlier in their career, and next thing you know, they've got, like, either a head, someone running sales or maybe operations who's got maybe a couple of gray hairs and is a little older and has been doing it for a while and have context. And to your point, a network they can bring to the table. I think that's vitally important. Todd Merrill: Right. Well, I always, you know, the best thing that ever happened to me was I was working at Ciena back in the day, telecom. Steve Walsh: Yeah, I used to buy a ton of gear from them in my Comcast and Cox days. Todd Merrill: Yes, sir. Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, we bought a bunch of companies in the Bay Area and then stuff happened and then people get laid off, right? And then right about that time, LinkedIn started, and then it seemed like the worst day of your life. And then everybody connected on LinkedIn just in case, you know? And now, 20, 30 years later, that's the best thing that ever happened because all these really smart people went to different companies, and then went in different companies, and then went in different companies. And now, you know, that's something you don't have until you're a little bit older or have more experience. And then you've cultivated those relationships along the way, which I think is sometimes overlooked, you know? Steve Walsh: My most valuable asset I can ever give someone, it's not a check, it's access to my network… Todd Merrill: … yeah Steve Walsh: Which is global and vast. And like LinkedIn, I've been on LinkedIn 24 years. I have 27,000 contacts on LinkedIn. I've got 15,000 on TikTok. I've got a pretty massive network across all the profiles. It's probably 70 to a hundred thousand connections. So, there isn't a business problem, Todd. You probably have it yourself. There isn't a business problem. A founder could ask me that literally within an hour, and three or four texts or emails, I can’t solve because of someone in my network. I just know somebody. Todd Merrill: Yeah, who do we know. Steve Walsh: My favorite phrase is I got a guy. They're like, can you solve? I go; I got a guy for that. They go; you got a guy? I said, I got a guy for that. Of course I do. Todd Merrill: Let's kick around the idea of how and when you should raise money? So, what kind of mental model do you have for milestones for when people should be thinking about raising money? You mentioned that $10,000 a month recurring revenue. Not all the people that get to $10,000 a month need to be raising money. I mean, you might just be a nice, you know, we used to call it a lifestyle business, which was horrible back in the day, but that might not be a horrible exit for a lot of people, but you also might not be investable, which might be okay. Steve Walsh: Totally agree. Todd Merrill: How do we pick those apart? And then, how do we coach people through that? Steve Walsh: Where I start is first of all, I start with, don't raise money with a whiteboard and a dream. And we all know founders like this. Like, you go to their office, and they have 500 sticky notes on the wall behind them, but they haven't started any of them. But these are all their ideas for companies, and they want to go raise money for all of them. Todd Merrill: Right Steve Walsh: Don't do that. You have to have, what I always like to say is, when your customer list is people all with the last name that you have, that's a problem. So, like when your brother-in-law is your biggest customer, that's a problem. Do you have strangers buying your product? Can you grow organically by people who found you, whether it's on TikTok or LinkedIn or ads, or however. Can you grow organically via speaking engagements and conferences? So, you have to have more than one customer. It has to be organic founder-led sales. Can you get to that first? I don't care if it's instead of 10,000, 8,000 a month in revenue or 12,000. What I care about is when someone says, Steve, here's what happened. We launched 90 days ago, and we went from no revenue to 12,000 and we went from no customers to a hundred. And we've been doubling month over month. So, next month it's 18, then 24,000. And if we just had some capital, we could just two X this growth. That's when you want to raise money. And that's when you want to meet people. If somebody says, like, when someone says to me, Steve, we've got 10,000 a month in revenue. I go, great. Where was it 90 days ago? 9,990. I go, okay, well then that's not a fast-growing company. Like, why is it flat? Why aren't you growing? So, it's not just the number, Todd, it's the revenue. It's the growth. It's what's happening. How many customers make that up? 10,000 might be great if you have 10 customers, each paying you a thousand. But if you have one customer paying you 10,000, that's not great. Cause if that one customer leaves your business is gone. So, it all depends on the type of industry companies, growth, revenue. Also, it might be great that someone pays you a thousand dollars a month for your product. What if it costs you a hundred thousand to get that customer and your payback is 10 years? I want to see a payback, a CAC to LTV of under a year; preferably six months would be awesome. What if it takes you three years to pay back on that, on what you cost you to acquire that customer? Cause you had to run ads or pay for salespeople. So, there's a lot of things that go into what's a good time to raise and what are the metrics that investors are going to look at to decide if you are investable. Todd Merrill: And it's a giant sieve, right? So, there's a huge ratchet between you took a hundred thousand from an angel and to Series A, you know, when you get, I think it's like two and a quarter million dollar run rate to get to a Series A. Steve Walsh: Yep Todd Merrill: Not everybody's going to get there. Right? And then Series A to B, it's another like 90% drop off. Right? Steve Walsh: Yeah Todd Merrill: Is this 1 in 10, maybe? Steve Walsh: Yeah. The step ups are huge. Todd Merrill: Yeah. And then that's not failure either. Right? I always say get to ramen profitable where your business can support itself. And then you can raise money. Steve Walsh: To fall to life. Todd Merrill: Yeah. You can raise money if you want to or not. Right? And then, people get behind that power curve, and just deficit spend, and then, that's like almost the worst thing that can happen to a company. And they just get on this treadmill of never-ending fundraising. And if you're fundraising, you're certainly not selling. Steve Walsh: And then what happens is they get to the point where they go, well, we've always been able to raise. So, when we run out of money, we'll just raise again, and then they don't time the market cause the market shifts are all of a sudden. For example, blockchain and crypto aren't as hot as they were four years ago. Now it's AI. Well, I'm a blockchain company. I want to go raise again. Well, tough shit. Everyone wants to put money into AI now, so you're out. And they're like, but my investor said they would be here for me. Well, your investors just made an investment in Nvidia now. So, they're like, that happens. And I've had a couple of companies who just were on that hamster wheel, never got to default alive. And we're trying to time the market to raise and always will. Like, we can always raise more money. I'm like, not always, not always. Todd Merrill: Yep. It's all good until the carousel stops and then watch out. Steve Walsh: That’s it. Todd Merrill: Let's talk about software and the SaaS apocalypse, right? So, pure software. What's your opinion on that? You think pure software companies aren't as sexy as they used to be? You think they're coming back? Do we like services or hardware or what do you…? Steve Walsh: …I think SaaS is getting a bad rap. Look, Salesforce is a multi-billion dollar company. I don't think Marc Benioff is going to shut Salesforce down tomorrow because of AI. What I do think is going forward. I don't think people are going to pay a hundred dollars per user per month for a Salesforce license. I think it's going to look more like the LLMs do now based on token usage. You're going to buy credits. Those credits are going to be used for data and based on how much or how little data you're using, you're going to pay accordingly. So, the bigger companies will pay more. The companies that use more data will pay more. It might be a small company using a lot of data versus a big company, not pulling a lot of data. Cause what used to happen is your size of your company would determine how low your price would get. So, if you had more employees, you'd pay less. I don't think that's the new model. I think the new model is based on usage and data is going to determine what you pay. So, I think SaaS companies are going to evolve. I don't think they're going away. My opinion is two of the largest SaaS companies in the world right now are Claude and OpenAI. Now, it's a different type of SaaS, but you're paying a monthly subscription to get access to data. That's SaaS. It's a different type of SaaS cause you're not downloading stuff onto your desktop, but it's SaaS. I don't understand why people aren't looking at it that way. To me, OpenAI and Claude are just a new version of SaaS. I think it's going to look a lot more like that, Todd. That's my opinion. Todd Merrill: Well, and then, you know, I've seen a lot more companies where they're more blended maybe. So, you have a service component, and that kind of lines up with what you're saying is just to be absolutely maniacal about the onboarding and customer care. You know, you can't do that. You know, like Atlassian is famous for, you know, yeah, they're a bunch, they have like almost no go to market, like no outbound sales, right? It's all like, you know, software nerds come in and buy in their product cause, hey, it's the kind of default. And then, they're not doing as well as they used to maybe. But yeah, I don't know. I see a lot of companies like in medical, you know, we have a blended, you have some clinical staff, but some really cool software to go with it. And so it's like, I guess you're selling outcomes. I don't know how you feel about that, you know, sell outcomes, not hours or not you know, project work. Steve Walsh: Yeah. People don't buy products. They buy what the products or services do for them. Do they make them more productive? Do they make their life better? Do they save the money? That's what they're buying. That's what you want to sell. And I think that's going to become even more important in the age of AI. I really do. Todd Merrill: Yeah. Well, and then it's kind of like AI. AI is not really changing things. It's just making things more compressed or more visible. You know, it's shortening that cycle of like, I've got an idea to, I've got implementation. You still got to do the sales marketing, talk to people, you know, make people happy. You just have to do a lot faster and a lot more compressed with a lot less dollars. Steve Walsh: Yes Todd Merrill: Which kind of points to later stage, you know, older people more that are more experienced that have a lot of resources to bring the table anyway, should be the ones to start in companies. And you know, there's even the people with right personality types to start companies, I think a lot of them aren't equipped yet. And they just don't have enough experience or you know, have a little cash reserve, or they have, you know, people… Steve Walsh: They might not have humility yet or have been humble by life instances that have happened to people that might be a little bit older. Todd Merrill: Scars are more important than gray hair. Steve Walsh: I mean, I was on a live the other day and I just said, I have learned so much more from my failures than I have from my successes. And they're like, unpack that for me. What does that mean? I go, we learn so much from our failures. We learn what not to do. We understand how to do things differently. We approach things differently. Like, I don't know if we learn a ton from our successes. I really don't. I mean, we celebrate them. We learn how to win and we post all over socials about them, but I have learned so much more in my life from my failures than I have ever have from my successes. Todd Merrill: Yes. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. Steve Walsh: Yeah. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. That was stupid. I shouldn't have done that. And you just know what not to do. That's huge. Todd Merrill: Let's talk about TikTok. You brand, your Hands-On Angel, as a media company, which I thought was really clever. Why did you pick that moniker or why is media important in this day and age? Steve Walsh: I just think that whether I'm building a brand around helping early-stage founders understand if their business is fundable, and if so, what they need to do to get ready for it, I think go-to-market going forward for all companies is going to be about distribution. And one of the reasons why I started leaning into TikTok was, one, a lot of my founder ecosystem was asking me, cause I was getting asked to speak at a lot of colleges, and they were like, Hey Steve, or some of them would call me Mr. Walsh. And then I'd look behind for my father. Todd Merrill: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Steve Walsh: They'd say, Steve, you know, what's your TikTok handle? And I'm like, I'm not on Tik. This was like a year and a half ago. I'm like, I'm not on TikTok. They're like, why you'd crush, you get the spiky hair, like you talk with your hands, you're fun, you'd crush. And I'm like, okay. So, I have my 19-year-old at the time helped make my TikTok handle. And that's where it started. But I just think that you have to go with the audiences. I don't want to say you have to be everywhere, but you have to make it a point to try to be everywhere. And LinkedIn used to be the place where you can do business. And I was a very early LinkedIn user. I've been on it for 24 years, but my audience has grown. I mean, I get 27,000 followers on LinkedIn. My audience on TikTok has grown to 15,000 in like 12 months. Todd Merrill: That’s ridiculous. Steve Walsh: So, it's growing much faster. The reach is further. And it's not … everyone's, oh, it's going to be kids. It's not. My audience on TikTok is 25 to 44. Todd Merrill: No kidding. Okay. Steve Walsh: So, it's right in the startup wheelhouse. Now my audience on LinkedIn skews a little older, and that's fine. But now I'm getting exposure to newer folks who are early in their journey in entrepreneurship, who just want to learn. And short-form video, even at my age, I consume more short-form video than long-form, both on YouTube and other platforms. And I just think that you have to meet your audience where you are, and the ability to get eyeballs in what you're doing, it's been a force multiplier for me. I've gone from 200, 300 people joining my TikTok lives when I started these, to now, I did one three weeks ago. I got 10,000 people on the live in like three hours. It was … Todd Merrill: … wow! Go live for three hours. Steve Walsh: Yeah. I just went live. Cause what happened was, Todd, after an hour, I was going to get off. And then all of a sudden there were 300, 400 more people in the live asking questions that I'm like, all right, I'll stay a little longer. Then it was another half hour. Then I'm like, all right, I got to go. I'm like, all right, well, there are more people; let me do that. And I just kept going. And finally, I'm like, holy shit, I've been on here for three hours. It's 10,000 people that have come through the room. This is nuts. And I had like 500 DMs in my DMs. I'm like, this is insane. And it was all centered around founders wanting to do well. They want to learn how to grow companies. They want to learn more about how to build and how to be investable. And here I am just going, I've done this like 6,000 times. I've backed 70 companies. I think there's something here. Let me just give you some guidance. And then the more they asked, the more I answered, and it became this great dialogue and this very low-friction way for founders to get information. And so, then I just started saying, I just need to be doing this more. So, TikTok led to my newsletter, which now has thousands of founders, because some founders would prefer to read as opposed to watch. So, now I'm putting out a newsletter once a week for free that gives founders tips and tactics on how to raise. And then that led to podcast opportunities like this where you and I met on TikTok. And now I'm on a podcast talking about entrepreneurship. And I think it's all tied. I don't think everyone's like, well, are you a podcast guy? You're a TikTok guy? I'm like, I'm an entrepreneur. Like, I want to help entrepreneurs. Sometimes, I'm doing that on TikTok. Sometimes it's on Riverside, doing a podcast. Sometimes it's on LinkedIn. Sometimes it's a newsletter. But it's all tied to some sort of media and distribution, which is why I say I'm really about educating founders and media is the way I do that. Todd Merrill: And you came from big media, Cox, Comcast, right? Steve Walsh: I did. Todd Merrill: So, it's all about building a brand. And I feel like the younger the generations, the more they hate big brands, like they just don't like them. And then, the personal brand has become even more premium than it has been in the past. You feel like, okay, and then like Andreessen Horowitz, I think, bought a company or started, had a little spin-out called Turpentine Media. You know, one of their growth hackers, you know, spun out and said, hey, I'm going to do a podcast studio. And I think that's part of their playbook now. It's like you get a check from Andreessen. You know, here's your lawyer. Here's your banker. Here's your podcast studio. Right? And then you are going to do this, and then off we go. Steve Walsh: I literally built the studio two weeks ago because TikTok reached out to me and they're like, we love what you're doing. We're seeing what's happening in your lives. Let us help you. Like, let us give you some guidance on you should upgrade your mic. You should upgrade your cam. You should get in that. And this all came out of conversations with other people in the ecosystem going, we love what you're doing. Why don't we help you up your game so you can do more of it? And more people will pay attention. And it's been a force multiplier for me. It's been fun. Todd Merrill: Okay, okay. Steve Walsh: And now I know how to build a studio now, which I've never done before. Todd Merrill: Huh. Okay. So, what I worry about, though, is like I haven't figured out TikTok. Like it's just like LinkedIn. I understand, you know, and then I'll put like an article on. And then, you know, I know when to put like, you know, a little bit of a boost or 20 bucks or 50 bucks and then get a little bit of mileage out of that. And then it's like glacial, you know? Like, a thing like stick around for weeks or months, even sometimes, you know, and then somebody, like, six weeks later and then you got TikTok. And it's like, let me tell you what happened last weekend. So, something popped up in my feed. I have this venture studio where we do rapid development. And the lady said something like, hey, I've got a great idea for an app. Let me tell you about it, and she described her app. And I thought, oh, that'd be cool. Let's do this. I know what I'm doing this weekend. All right. So, I implemented it. And then by Monday morning, it was in the App Store ready to go. Nobody cared. Like, nobody came back to that post. Everybody was gone for days. Like, it was just like, it didn't even stick around for a weekend. And nobody was like going back to any of the comments. And it's like, how do you think about, like, is it just volume and TikTok? It's like you just have to hit people like right now when you're in the mood to hear the message? Steve Walsh: Yeah, it's a great question. So, the things that have worked on TikTok for me the best are the things that are usually raw, filmed by me. Very little editing, maybe cut up the beginning and end on Cap Cut, maybe put a caption just so people can read the words because I like to read. And that's it. Like, you know, my second biggest post ever on TikTok, I did last week. And I was talking to somebody about the entrepreneur ecosystem around the country, and we were talking about Texas. And I said, Texas is like that, has these interesting pockets. We're like, Austin is this Silicon Valley of the South, very young because of the college communities around it, like UT, Austin, and has a very different feel versus Dallas is old school, old money oil. And I just made the comment I was recording at the time. I said, Dallas is the only place where you literally could see a guy walking around in a ten-thousand-dollar suit with a ten-gallon hat and a six-shooter on his hip. Nine-second video. Forty-eight hours later, the video got 38,000 views. Todd Merrill: Wow Steve Walsh: And I had everything from I had everything from people going, oh, my God, I've seen that in Dallas. I believe you. And then other people going, I'm from Texas. I'm offended by this. I live in Dallas. I've never seen anything. And I'm in the comments going, I'm sorry. This is a first-person account. I was in Dallas. This is what I saw, like, but it was great because the more comments I got, it just started spiraling. And I'm like, this thing has 32,000 views. This is insane. All for a nine-second video that when I filmed it, I was like, this is never going to work. But I put a caption on it and threw it up. Anyway, the next thing, you know, it's like, it was weird. Todd Merrill: And you never know what's going to blow up. Right? Steve Walsh: No Todd Merrill: And then you just got to be interesting and you just got to be the spark. Steve Walsh: And then you have to be willing to do it a lot. Like, I'm going to point now: I do 50 pieces of content a week across five platforms. Heaviest on TikTok. I'm posting four times a day on TikTok, two times a day on YouTube Shorts. Once a day on Instagram, once a day on LinkedIn, once a day on X, and then one long-form on YouTube a week. So, that kind of gets up to my 50. It's about 50 pieces of content. And that's in addition to my newsletter, in addition to my lives. But it's about 50 pieces of content a week. And I could never tell you which piece of content on which platform is going to work. Why one got 20,000 and one got two. It's frustrating. It's as frustrating for me today, Todd, as it was a year and a half ago when I started this journey. The good news is what? And I watch Gary Vaynerchuk a lot. And Gary has been on social media. Like, he was like super early into YouTube and TikTok. He has been talking on TikTok for 10 years. Now, everyone's finally paying attention. He's just like, it is a volume and a consistency game. You have to just keep showing up. And sooner or later, something will pop. The right person will see you and share it. Next thing you know, it's nuts. And that has been my experience in the TikTok thing. It's everyone's like, how are you blowing up right now? I'm like, it's a year and a half of posting like three or four times a day. Like, it's not… Todd Merrill: … overnight process. Steve Walsh: Overnight process. And people look at Mr. Beast, the biggest creator in the history of the world. He's been doing this for a long time and was just showing up consistently on YouTube, and then people started to pay attention. And when you watch his story, he's really not that special. He's just not. He just started by turning his phone on and talking about stuff that he thought was interesting. And in my case, I'm just talking about stuff that I see every day. And most of the time, that's founders and startups and business, and what I've realized is people really want that nowadays, and they want the authentic nature. They want the person that's like, you know, I've known that this works. I've looked at 6,000 companies, and I've worked with 69 of them. That's how I know it works. And then when someone says to me, well, prove that you've done what you've done. I'm like, here's the cell phone of five founders I raised 20 million bucks for in the last 12 months. Call them and call me back, please. Like, what are we doing? Yeah Todd Merrill: Yeah Steve Walsh: And that tends to resonate really well. Todd Merrill: You know, I think the younger generation, like, I have a 21-year-old, a 23-year-old. You know, so my 21-year-old… Steve Walsh: I have 19 and 25. Todd Merrill: Yeah, they hate AI. Like, anything that smells like AI. It's like, no, just nope. Just don't want any part of it. And then it's the, and then how do you, you know, we can't. They're not going to watch this hour episode, but they'll watch snippets of it. Right? And then they'll see you go by every couple three days, and they'll go, oh, yeah, it's a guy, you know, so maybe it's just repetition and shots on goal and everything's ephemeral now. And maybe that's what TikTok is all about. Steve Walsh: Todd, it is. It's like in order to hit the ball, you got to get swings at the plate. That's it. That's it. Like, I mean, how do you get, you know, how do you get to a 400-batting average, like have a lot of swings? Todd Merrill: Yep. Strike out a couple of times. Steve Walsh: That's it. It's … I don't know. Everyone thinks that, and this is, I have a 19- and 25-year-old, and everyone thinks there's a hack, and there's a shortcut. And like everyone's like, how'd you do this? And I'm like, I'm at year nine, and I'm at 6,000 conversations. And no one wants to hear, like, oh, and I'm like, each conversation, 30 minutes. They're like, that's a lot of time. I'm like, yeah, it's a lot of time to get to where I am. And it just takes time. And sometimes that's not a popular opinion. And when I tell that to people, they have this exhausted look on their face. I'm like, what do you want me to tell you? Sometimes good things take time. Fine wines take time. So, to building companies. Todd Merrill: How many meetings, do you have a threshold for when you'll stop talking to somebody? You get that wantrepreneur. They just like talking about it a lot. And then when do you think about cutting them off, or how do you always like to leave people better than I found them? Right? But then there comes a time when it's like you need to do specific things. And if you can't do them or won't do them. Steve Walsh: Sure Todd Merrill: I'm not doing you any favors. Steve Walsh: I look at it a different way; I put some filters, and the way I filter now is I provide a ton of content for free. Like, I always think the… I'm a big believer in what Gary Vaynerchuk says. Give, give, give, take. So, like, I want to do a ton of free stuff. So, the 50 posts a week, the four to five lives on TikTok a week, the newsletter all free. And what I tell founders is, if you're not ready for me to work with me, that's what you should be doing and consume as much as you want all day, every day. I love it. But if a founder wants to work with me one-on-one, because a year ago, it just started to get too much. I was getting 100, 200 DMs a day of people that wanted to, you know, pick my brain and work with me. And then I get on a call, be a waste of time. So, what I finally did is over-index on my free content and just started publishing a ton of free stuff, and I said, if you want to work with me one-on-one, here's a paywall and I start charging. So, you want an intro call with me? Here's 30 minutes. Here's a paywall. Click. And I thought volume was going to go down. It actually went up, but the quality went to the roof because the people that were willing to pay for a call with me- and it has nothing to do with the money. It was a test. How serious are you? Are you really an entrepreneur or a wantrepreneur? How badly do you want my help? And do you think I'm the guy that can help you based on everything you've seen for the last two years on socials? And the good news is I've never had anybody at the end of the call say this was a waste of time and money. In fact, what they've usually said is, how can we continue to work together? What do I need to do? What do I need to do to convince you to help me? How can we work together going forward? Or I say you're not ready and here's why. But here are the KPIs or the things you need to do and come back to me. I don't say no a lot, Todd. I say not yet. Todd Merrill: Not yet. Steve Walsh: I say not yet. And here's why. But they love that because that's what they want. And so that's how I filter it, is I provide a ton of free. And then if they say, well, I don't want to pay. I don't want to do that. I go, no problem. Here's a shit ton of free stuff you can consume for nothing. I'm not asking you to pay a dime. But much like if you have a good doctor, a good lawyer, a good accountant, you have to pay them. Same thing here. And that litmus test really helped me weed out the wantrepreneurs versus the entrepreneurs. And I just point the wantrepreneurs to my free content. Todd Merrill: And then since we're here, where is that or where would you point people to on the Internet if they want to talk to you? Steve Walsh: The good news is HandsOnAngel.com is my website. It's the place where you can link to all my socials, all my content, my newsletter, my four-and-a-half-hour course I built to teach founders how to fundraise if they want to do it themselves. You can go to one place, HandsOnAngel.com, and get directed appropriately to every piece of content I do. Todd Merrill: Okay, and we'll link that for you on the on the distribution. Well, Steve, it's been great having you. It's all about travel and getting out there in the world. Do you get any great travel stories you want to share with us? Steve Walsh: Sure, man. So, it all goes back to my startup ecosystem and founders. And about five years ago, I was beyond fortunate. I had a company that I invested in called RoundlyX. My friends, Drew and Will, the two founders I loved, invested in the company a couple of times. I was an advisor to the company. One of the founders was getting married. And his wife was from Slovenia. And he said, we're going to have the wedding. Will you come to the wedding? Of course. He invited my wife and me. And I said, of course, we'll come. He goes; it's in Slovenia. And of course, my first question, like most, is where the hell is Slovenia? And I didn't know this. It's right next to Italy, which is where my ancestors are from. And my wife and I had always wanted to go to Italy. So, I'm looking, I'm like, it's like an hour from Venice. So, I said to my wife, I'm going, hey, want to go to Drew's wedding? And we'll go for two, three days in Slovenia. And then we'll pop over and go to Venice for a few days, Florence for a few days, and we'll come home, which was awesome. We go to the wedding. It's in Slovenia, which is a gorgeous country, by the way. He rented a castle in Slovenia. 50 people at the wedding, rented the whole castle in the dungeon. They turned it into a wine cellar. And it's where the reception was. It was the most unbelievable wedding ever. And I was fortunate. So, I met his family, his parents, his sisters, his whole family. And I was sitting there, and what I noticed at the wedding was everybody was really close friends and family. And it was no one else. And I knew everybody in the cap table, all the other investors; nobody else on the investor list or cap table was at the wedding, it was just me. Todd Merrill: Oh, wow! Steve Walsh: This is like 2:00 in the morning. We're all shit-faced. We were having a glass of wine. And I said, can I ask a question? He goes, what? I go, what am I doing here? And he goes, what do you mean? I said, I noticed like nobody else from the cap tables here, no one else, none of the investors are here. He's like, hey man, we've raised $2 million and it's like 99% because of you. And like, you've changed our lives. Like, you're our friend, you're our investor, but you're also our friend. And like, you've literally changed our lives. We can't think of not having you here. And that's when on the ride back to the hotel afterwards with my wife, I told her that story and I just said, my life just doesn't suck when I get to do this for a living and get these types of experiences and the fact that it was a cool country and getting to travel was great. So, that's my cool travel story. Todd Merrill: Wow! That's really awesome. It really is about helping the next generation and doing good out there in the world, and it'll come back. Steve Walsh: Absolutely, man. I truly believe that. Todd Merrill: All right, Steve. It's been great having you. Bye for now. Steve Walsh: Thank you, my friend. Todd Merrill: Appreciate you.